[kwlug-disc] Debian governance (was:What is all this about systemd?)

[Khalid Baheyeldin]

And now, a fourth resignation from Ian Jackson, after the failure of
the general resolution to prevent packages from depending on a
specific init system

Ian Jackson is the author of dpkg, among other things ...

https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2014/11/msg00091.html


On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 12:38 PM, Khalid Baheyeldin <kb at 2bits.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Khalid Baheyeldin <kb at 2bits.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 1:24 PM, Hubert Chathi <hubert at uhoreg.ca> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 12:14:41 -0400, Khalid Baheyeldin <kb at 2bits.com> said:
>>>
>>>> This is what he said:
>>>
>>>> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=5852295&cid=48188823
>>>
>>>> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=5852295&cid=48188887
>>>
>>> I saw those, and they don't seem to be referring to Debian's
>>> governance.  While some of the "policy wonks" that he refers to may be
>>> part of Debian's governance, I don't see him as talking about a problem
>>> with Debian's governance itself.
>>>
>>> And his second message specifically denies that he's talking about the
>>> systemd people (if you look at the parent message), and if I had to
>>> guess based solely on those posts, his comment about "making [Debian] a
>>> whore to Ubuntu" could be taken as an indication that he is talking
>>> about the upstart people, despite him saying that he is beginning to be
>>> wary of systemd.
>>
>> I did not say he said something about Poetterring et al, if that is
>> what you understood.
>>
>> He was saying that Debian is the one that has management issues
>> (alluding to the WAY that systemd was adopted in Debian).
>>
>> And saying that if it forks, he will check if the certain people
>> managing it will go with Debian proper, or the fork and he (Bruce)
>> will go the other way.
>
> As a followup on this, there has been at least three resignations from
> and within Debian.
>
> First, you have Joey Hess, who specifically cites the Debian
> constitution as a reason for leaving Debian
>
> In the comments here, you will find links to his mailing list posts
> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/14/11/08/1448234/joey-hess-resigns-from-debian
> (He is pro systemd, so opposition to systemd is not the reason of him
> leaving, but the process that led to its adoption is)
>
> Then there is Tollef Fog Heen, who is not leaving Debian but resigning
> as systemd maintainer
> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/14/11/16/2142244/longtime-debian-developer-tollef-fog-heen-resigns-from-systemd-maintainer-team
> In the comments, he answers questions, and he summarizes the process
> of adopting systemd and all the problems it created within Debian's
> team here
> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=6078013&cid=48398675
>
> Which points to the pro systemd post by Russ Allberry
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2013/12/msg00234.html
>
> And others pointed to the rebuttal by Ian Jackson
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2013/12/msg00182.html
>
> Then today, you have Russ Allberry resigning from the Debian Technical Committee
>
> http://lwn.net/Articles/620879/
>
> Again, to avoid discussing things I am not saying: this is not a "they
> resigned because of systemd itself", rather "the process that led to
> systemd's adoption uncovered governance problems within Debian".
> --
> Khalid M. Baheyeldin
> 2bits.com, Inc.
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-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
Fast Reliable Drupal
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple,
and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken