[kwlug-disc] Trust in Musk.. or go to NextCloud

Fri Nov 11 13:33:02 EST 2022

I'm not sure if I'd trust Musk with too-powerful an AI these days...

On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 1:32 PM Eva B <eva at diyode.com> wrote:

> Hmmmm....
> I wonder if key words could trigger an encyclopedic database, something
> like wikipedia, not just for reference of community driven information, but
> to show leanings based on the content of the post. Maybe with AI.
>
> On Fri., Nov. 11, 2022, 12:50 p.m. Chris Frey, <cdfrey at foursquare.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Well said.  I think the only point I'd add would be to this:
>>
>> > There's been an unfortunate trend to increasing political polarization.
>> In
>> > the extreme form, it's the idea that objective reality doesn't exist,
>> there
>> > are no facts, only politicized opinions. This is being driven by people
>> on
>> > the far left and the far right. It's not just right wing people who
>> need to
>> > be fact checked. Extreme ideologies have been around for thousands of
>> years,
>> > nothing new here. What seems to make it worse is the magnifying effect
>> of
>> > social media like facebook and twitter. These are funded by
>> advertising, so
>> > to increase ad revenues you use an algorithmic feed that increases
>> engagement
>> > by preferentially showing people extremist content, because that
>> content gets
>> > more clicks.
>>
>> I'd love it if the "fact checking" was done by civilized free speech
>> itself,
>> enabled by a new twitter rather than imposed by outside "authorities",
>> or even worse, advertiser interests.  Sometimes the authorities need
>> to be fact checked too.
>>
>> - Chris
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 11:10:18AM -0500, Doug Moen wrote:
>> > I have a different view of "what's wrong with twitter". The problem
>> isn't specifically and only "Musk", Twitter has been criticized for years.
>> >
>> > There's been an unfortunate trend to increasing political polarization.
>> In the extreme form, it's the idea that objective reality doesn't exist,
>> there are no facts, only politicized opinions. This is being driven by
>> people on the far left and the far right. It's not just right wing people
>> who need to be fact checked. Extreme ideologies have been around for
>> thousands of years, nothing new here. What seems to make it worse is the
>> magnifying effect of social media like facebook and twitter. These are
>> funded by advertising, so to increase ad revenues you use an algorithmic
>> feed that increases engagement by preferentially showing people extremist
>> content, because that content gets more clicks.
>> >
>> > The factors that made old Twitter toxic are:
>> >  * It was a publically held company, and therefore motivated to grow
>> user count and revenue by any means necessary, regardless of the social
>> cost. Musk fixed that, Twitter is now privately held.
>> >  * It was 90% funded by advertising, therefore it needs an algorithmic
>> feed of the most inflammatory comment in order to maximize engagement and
>> clicks. Except you censor the content that the ad companies object to. Musk
>> wants to reduce or eliminate the dependency on ad revenue. We'll see if he
>> figures that out.
>> >
>> > What does Musk think about algorithmic feeds? Mar 24: "Twitter
>> algorithm should be open source". May 11: "Chronological tweets seem much
>> better than what “the algorithm” suggests". These tweets are
>> pre-acquisition. He's workshopped a lot of conflicting ideas recently, so
>> we'll see.
>> >
>> > His Oct 27 tweet, "Dear Twitter advertisers", says positive things.
>> Although he's pandering to advertisers, and you can interpret the following
>> multiple ways, so we'll see.
>> > > The reason I acquired Twitter is because it is important to the
>> future of civilization to have a common digital town square where a wide
>> range of beliefs can be debated in a healthy manner, without resorting to
>> violence. There is currently great danger that social media will splinter
>> into far right wing and far left wing echo chambers that generate more hate
>> and divide our society.
>> > >
>> > > In the relentless pursuit of clicks, much of traditional media has
>> fueled and catered to these polarized extremes, as they believe that is
>> what brings in the money, but, in doing so, the opportunity for dialogue is
>> lost.
>> > >
>> > > That is why I bought Twitter. I didn't do it because it would be
>> easy. I didn't do it to make more money. I did it to try to help humanity,
>> whom I love. And I do so with humility, recognizing that failure in
>> pursuing this goal, despite our best efforts, is a real possibility.
>> > >
>> > > That said, Twitter obviously cannot become a free-for-all hellscape,
>> where anything can be said with no consequences! In addition to adhering to
>> the laws of the land, our platform must be warm and welcoming to all, where
>> you can choose your desired experience according to your preference, just
>> as you can choose, for example, to see movies or play video games ranging
>> from all ages to mature.
>> >
>> >  Musk says that his actions may drive Twitter into bankruptcy. That
>> sounds positive: one less toxic social media site? Whether or not that
>> happens, Musk wants to burn Twitter to the ground and replace it with
>> something "better", and it's not impossible that the new thing might be an
>> improvement. Now we just need somebody to kill Facebook and the others.
>> >
>> > Musk is an idealist who is motivated to make the world a better place.
>> Eg, Tesla to move society away from fossil fuel consumption to address
>> global warming, SpaceX to make humanity multi-planetary, removing an
>> existential threat to our species. Money is just a means to these ends. His
>> disinterest in money is made very clear by his treatment of Twitter, and
>> half the criticism of his tenure as Twitter CEO is "but that's not how you
>> run a business". He's also extremely driven, a terrible boss, manipulative,
>> probably a narcissist. But as long as I don't have to work for him, there's
>> a chance that his interventions might actually be a net positive for me. I
>> can't know for sure, as only history will tell. I sure don't like
>> everything he does, just some things.
>> >
>> > Do I want to use Twitter now, after having deleted my account years
>> ago? Nope. If I wanted to microblog, Mastodon is decentralized and open
>> source, with no ads or algorithmic feeds forced on me. Mastodon is growing
>> quickly right now, and that's another good thing that has arisen from
>> Musk's twitter acquisition. Yay Elon!
>> >
>> > On Thu, Nov 10, 2022, at 9:48 PM, Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:
>> > > A good summary of Twitter under Elon Musk, so far ...
>> > >
>> > > https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63593242
>> > > _______________________________________________
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>>
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