[kwlug-disc] OT: Ivermectin

[Paul Nijjar]

A quick note: this is getting off-topic for the focus of this group.
That's okay, but I ask the following things: (a) the thread be marked
as such, (b) we respect each other as people even if we do not
hold shared views and values, and (c) we remain kind to each other. 

Short of pulling the emergency moderation lever, there is not much I
can do in GNU Mailman to step in, and I would strongly prefer not to do
that. 

I am not accusing the participants thus far of violating the above
requests, but I am away from email for most of the day tomorrow and I
am aware that threads on contentious issues can spiral quickly.

- Paul

On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 07:51:21PM -0500, Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:
> In another thread, Ivermectin was mentioned:
> 
> Show me the official fact checkers who have a nuanced
> > view of ivermectin.  I wish that the mainstream fact checkers
> > had your view on digging for information and showing it.
> >
> 
> There is no nuance here: Ivermectin does not work against COVID-19 in any
> way.
> 
> I have a pharmacy degree and was licensed decades ago, but switched after
> a few months to the new fangled computer thing. So like any non-specialist,
> I lookup information and see if it is backed by evidence, under rigorous
> controlled
> testing conditions, or not. If not, there is not weight to the claim.
> 
> It is just like Hydroxychloroquine: what works against a certain pathogen
> or disease at a given dose, at does not work for other pathogens or
> conditions
> at a different dose. Viruses and intestinal worms have very different
> biologies
> and modes of infections (one is inside the cells, the other is outside, for
> one).
> 
> One example with dire consequences is thalidomide. It was used as a
> painkiller
> (like Tylenol), then its use was expanded for morning sickness for pregnant
> women.
> The result was babies were born with incomplete hands or feet. Canada, the
> UK and
> Europe allowed that use with disastrous results. In the USA, one Dr.
> Frances Oldham
> Kelsey who worked for the FDA refused to approve the drug, and stuck to her
> position
> that the company must submit safety data, despite pressure from superiors.
> 
> Oh, and she was Canadian too ...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykeREfe1Jpc
> 
> The proponents of HCQ and Ivermectin are stuck in a narrative that vaccines
> are not needed, and there are cheap drugs that work, but there is a
> conspiracy
> that big pharma backed by governments who don't want us to know the truth.
> 
> This video is from the early days of Ivermectin, and from the doctor who
> testified to the US Congress that it works. The debunker uses proper
> "evidence
> based methodology" to debunk it.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6CJFQ_Xr7A
> 
> The claimed evidence that it works first came from a study at Benha
> University
> (a small university in Egypt). Sadly, it turned out that the data was
> entirely fabricated.
> So not just an error, but scientific fraud. The paper was retracted.
> 
> https://grftr.news/why-was-a-major-study-on-ivermectin-for-covid-19-just-retracted/
> 
> Subsequent proper studies show no evidence of any benefit:
> 
> For example, this is a paper showing no reduction in hospitalization. It is
> a draft
> submitted to the British Medical Journal June 2022, and perhaps published
> now.
> https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.06.10.22276252v1
> 
> The quote is: "... resulted in less than one day of shortening of symptoms
> and did
> not lower incidence of hospitalization or death among outpatients with
> COVID-19"
> 
> Another study published in the New England Journal of Medicine in Aug 2022,
> and
> testing several cheap available medicines concludes:
> 
> "None of the three medications that were evaluated prevented the occurrence
> of
> hypoxemia, an emergency department visit, hospitalization, or death
> associated
> with Covid-19."
> 
> https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2201662
> 
> Oh, and we know that cheap medicines do work for COVID-19 in certain cases.
> And they are being used too ...
> 
> Pre-Omicron, the variants (Delta was the worst) attacked the lower
> respiratory
> tract (bronchus, alveoli) causing pneumonia. Thankfully, Omicron attacks the
> upper respiratory tract (nose, pharynx, larynx), so pneumonia is not an
> issue,
> though long COVID is still a significant risk.
> 
> Dexamethasone is a generic drug that is very cheap, and is administered when
> a COVID-19 patient transitions from the viral phase (first week) to the
> early
> inflammatory phase (2nd week), where it is the immune system that is causing
> the damage, not the virus itself. The sign to give dexamethasone is reduced
> blood oxygen which can be measured by an oximeter (the thing that clips on
> the finger). Dexamethasone reduces the inflammation and hopefully patients
> recover from pneumonia.
> 
> What happens when the same drug that saves lives is administered at the
> wrong
> time? Disaster! In India, doctors were too aggressive and gave dexamethasone
> (or other corticosteroids) in the first week, suppressing the immune
> system, and
> there were lots of cases of black fungus which killed tissues around the
> nose and
> eye, permanently disfiguring some people.
> 
> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-57897682
> 
> So no, neither HCQ nor Ivermectin do any good for COVID-19 ...
> And yes, vaccines are our best shot, followed by Paxlovid, and perhaps one
> or two
> monoclonal antibodies that did not have their efficacy reduced by viral
> mutations.
> 
> Note: for Paxlovid and the monoclonals, they do require proper timing, and
> must be
> given in the first few days, otherwise it will do no good at all. The same
> goes for
> Tamiflu against influenza.
> 
> -- 
> Khalid M. Baheyeldin

> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.


-- 
Events: https://feeds.off-topic.kwlug.org 
Housing: https://unionsd.coop
Blog: http://pnijjar.freeshell.org