[kwlug-disc] Summary of restaurant discussion

[Paul Nijjar]

(This got long and is mostly skimmable. Sorry.)

On Wed, Oct 08, 2025 at 07:45:16PM -0700, Tim Laurence wrote:
>  There were a few ideas floated around. Mostly around a couple topics.
> 
> 1. Updating the group a bit to feel a bit more modern. What that is is il
> defined but perhaps having a major communication channel not be email. ;)


In terms of communications channels: If people have the time and
energy to set up and maintain/moderate these channels, then go for it.
Keep in mind that none of these channels will bring in users for free
-- you have to cultivate the audience. 

What I am not interested in: people demanding new communications
channels and then expecting me (or other members of the the secretive
society that operates KWLUG) to babysit it. 

A good example of this done well is LinkedIn. Jason Paul took over
management duties of our moribund LinkedIn presence and as far as I
know it is now a vibrant and thriving subculture I have nothing to do
with.

Because we are in principle a FLOSS group (more on that below) my
inclination is to support FLOSS forums. But the kids are on Discord
and Tiktok and Instagram (and LinkedIn?), so people who want to
proselytize in new territory are probably going there. We can provide
DNS subdomains/verification, email aliases and links on the kwlug.org
website.

If the proposal is to abandon email as a communication channel
entirely then I am less enthusiastic. However, this could happen given
an overthrow of the current leadership.

In terms of making the group "more modern": I am also fine with this
but there are some conversations to be had here. If somebody wants to
theme us a spiffy new Drupal theme, then that is pretty easy. If
somebody wants to replace Drupal entirely, then that is a larger
discussion.


> 2. Looking at using social media to expand our visibility.

I am all in favour of this, but it seems that existing KWLUG members
are allergic to Instagram. 

> 
> I(Tim) personally promoted the idea of something along the lines of a KW
> FLOSS Sub-Reddit with a wider and simpler mission (“Celebrate FLOSS” ||
> “Share the FLOSS”?) than KW LUG with to goal of making a OSS advocate
> “lighting rod” of which KWLUG would be a major part. I see a place where
> KWLUG event s could be promoted and people could more causal and
> conversational connect.


If you want to start a subreddit, then feel free. 

It is also completely okay for people to decide that KWLUG is for old
people and spin off an entirely new group that will appeal to The
Kids. Others have done this to great success.

>From my perspective (and it is only my perspective, not dictat) the
value of the LUG has changed over the years. In the early years it was
partially a forum for people to get technical help with Linux
problems. Then Stack Exchange came along and did a much better job of
that. We were much more focused on Linux at the beginning, and now we
are more broadly FLOSS (not that The Kids care much about FLOSS these
days in the way we geriatrics did). For a while we did FLOSS Fund
donations but then Kickstarter came along. Although it is not obvious,
the group has changed over the years. 

So what is the value of a LUG in 2025? In my opinion (and it is only
my opinion) the core of KWLUG includes the following:

- An emphasis on free software as a lens through which we view
  technology

- An emphasis on technical discussions rather than venture-capital
  based business development (although some other topics can creep in)

- An emphasis on the geography of Waterloo Region (although people
  from outside the region are still welcome to participate)

- An emphasis on holding regular meetings in Waterloo region, usually
  focused on technical topics

- An emphasis on building a community of people who interact in a
  friendly and supportive way, and then using the energy from that
  community to do interesting things. (This mailing list is one such
  interesting thing. Some of the connections people have made over the
  years is another.)

- An emphasis on informal do-ocracy and contributions over highly
  formalized and regulated organizational structures. (Yes, the
  Tyranny of Structurelessness applies here. But keeping things
  lightweight has meant less organizing work, which means the LUG has
  longevity even in maintenance mode.)


I am sure that many people are in disagreement (maybe strong
disagreement) with those principles. Many of those people tried a
meeting out and felt unwelcome. I do not like that but personally
don't have the energy to fix that. My hope is that enough people find
the LUG a good fit to gain benefit from it, and those who find the LUG
a bad fit find other communities that suit them better.

If you make a KW FLOSS subreddit (or any other alternative channel)
then the question is whether it plays to the strengths KWLUG offers,
or is it trying to be just another forum in a sea of forums?

There are also some principles/lines that are personally dealbreakers
for me, in the sense that if the LUG insisted on adopting those things
I would be stepping down from organizing duties. But that is not a
conversation for this mailing list. (And arguably, I ought to be
stepping down anyways.)

- Paul