[kwlug-disc] (Off Topic) Furnaces and Heat Pumps

[CrankyOldBugger]

Last time we bought a new (gas) water heater, we got lucky.  We were
dumping the Reliance Electric heater for a variety of reasons that I can't
speak on a public forum..  Jean kept an eye on the buy/sell pages online,
and as it happened there was a contractor who had installed a new heater
into a house, but the home owners wanted a different model/size/whatever,
so we bought it from him cheap.  Called Waterloo Appliances to get it
installed and even with the pro installation, we still came out ahead.


On Mon, 2 Mar 2026 at 18:21, Anton Avramov via kwlug-disc <
kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> We went through this some time back when I felt the old furnace is end
> of life and we also wanted to take advantage of the rebates.
>
> We eventually settled on Daikin Heat Pump from Able Air and it was sold
> to us by the Rep by:
> - The only furnace that is actually made for cold climate where as
> others are just a combination the heat pump outside, a furnace and
> control boards sometimes from different brands and only with 2-3 modes
> of operation.
> - The variable motor designed for continuous operation with a Daikin
> controller that actually utilize the full 32 speeds of the motor (I
> think it was 32 speeds).
>
> I've never actually verified those, but the Rep sounded convincing so
> take those with a grain of salt.
>
> Yes, there is no direct API to the Thermostat but the cloud integration
> for Home Assistant works and I had no problems with it.
>
> Now my specific unit did had some problems and they had to replace the
> control boards of the Heat Pump outside a couple of times and even had
> a representative of Daikin come and investigate what was the problem,
> but eventually they figure it out. The support was good.
> The good thing was that when it detected it has a problem with the Heat
> pump it just switched to gas and we are never left in the cold.
>
> Now once or twice a year the thermostat detects there may be a problem
> with the heat pump and I should contact support, but the last time just
> restarting the units clear the error.
> They suggested it might be some surges on the power grid and I should
> get a Surge Protection. Conveniently Able Air owner's brother had an
> electrical service and they did send me a quote for that, but I ended
> up using my own electrician and added a surge protection for the hole
> house.
>
> He had also installed Heat Pump recently and said the installer
> provided the purge protection as part of the installation, so you might
> check with your installer about that in advance. They might throw it
> for free.
>
> I'm not sure what more can I say.
> I don't actually control the heat pump with home assistant because I
> use it's build in schedule. In my Daikin thermostat you can have 4
> diffident schedules for each day of the week.
> Since we believe it's better to sleep in a little lower temperature I
> set the temp to 19C in 23h and then gradually increase it to 20.5 in 4h
> 21.5 in 5 and 22 in 6h.
> I do this because the heat pump works much slower that the furnace and
> it takes time to build the temperature back up. If the temp diff is too
> big and the thermostat detects it can bring the temperature back up
> quick enough it would automatically use the gas furnace as needed.
>
> If you have any questions I'll be happy to answer them if I can.
> Here is a snapshot of the sensors in home assistant:
>
>
> Main Room
> -3 °C
> -3 °C / -3 °C
> Main Room Air Handler Critical Fault Code
> Unknown
> Main Room Air Handler Minor Fault Code
> Unknown
> Main Room EEV Coil Critical Fault Code
> 0
> Main Room EEV Coil Minor Fault Code
> 0
> Main Room Indoor cooling actual
> 0.0%
> Main Room Indoor cooling demand
> 0.0%
> Main Room Indoor dehumidifier demand
> 0.0%
> Main Room Indoor fan actual
> 56.5%
> Main Room Indoor fan demand
> 56.5%
> Main Room Indoor furnace actual
> 0.0%
> Main Room Indoor furnace blower airflow
> 791 ft³/min
> Main Room Indoor Furnace Critical Fault Code
> 0
> Main Room Indoor furnace demand
> 0.0%
> Main Room Indoor Furnace Minor Fault Code
> 0
> Main Room Indoor humidifier demand
> 0.0%
> Main Room Indoor humidity
> 41%
> Main Room Indoor power
> 1,723 W
> Main Room Indoor temperature
> 21.9 °C
> Main Room Outdoor air temperature
> -4.5 °C
> Main Room Outdoor aqi
> 28
> Main Room Outdoor cooling demand
> 0.0%
> Main Room Outdoor Critical Fault Code
> 0
> Main Room Outdoor fan demand
> 56.0%
> Main Room Outdoor frequency in percent
> 43.0%
> Main Room Outdoor heat pump demand
> 43.0%
> Main Room Outdoor humidity
> 41%
> Main Room Outdoor Minor Fault Code
> 0
> Main Room Outdoor ozone
> 163 μg/m³
> Main Room Outdoor pm1
> 5 μg/m³
> Main Room Outdoor power
> 1,360 W
> Main Room Outdoor temperature
> -3.0 °C
> Main Room Thermostat Critical Fault Code
> 0
> Main Room Thermostat Minor Fault Code
> 0
>
> Best Regards
>
> On Mon, 2026-03-02 at 12:32 -0500, Chris Irwin via kwlug-disc wrote:
> > After the OT discussion on Water Heaters, I realized the Smart Home
> > people in this group might know more about furnaces and heat pumps
> > than
> > me.
> >
> > My furnace died. I've been working on getting it replaced, but it's
> > more
> > work than you'd expect if you have any questions during the process.
> > I
> > could sign the paperwork for a basic furnace and a/c and have it
> > installed next day. But I was curious about heat pumps, and these
> > questions typically take a day to answer, and then trigger more
> > questions. It's been *a week* of back and forth with two different
> > companies about this.
> >
> > I was originally quoted for a "Rheem" heat pump + furnace that was
> > comparable in cost to a regular A/C + furnace. Seemed like a simple
> > decision. However, after doing my own research, I realized it wasn't
> > a
> > "cold-climate" heat pump, and it's effective heat output at cold
> > temperatures is significantly diminished (even if the efficency of
> > said
> > heat is good, there just isn't very much heat). It would probably
> > help
> > in spring/fall, but not for most of the winter.
> >
> > Upon asking about this, they helpfully confirmed the above, and gave
> > a
> > quote on "Gree" cold-climate rated heat pump, which is (as expected)
> > a
> > bit more money, but initially appears significantly better in the
> > cold
> > (I haven't done my full research on it yet, I just got this quote
> > this
> > morning). Gree appears to be a made in China affair.
> >
> > One thing that I like is that this solution uses a normal Ecobee,
> > which
> > I'm already familiar with, and I know it integrates nicely with Home
> > Assistant using a *local* api (apple homekit -- no apple devices
> > required)
> >
> > I've been quoted by a second company for a "Daikin" solution, which
> > is
> > (despite the Japanese branding) apparently made in USA (which isn't a
> > selling feature ATM, other than to say parts are likely easier to
> > get).
> > This appears to actually be a pretty good unit efficiency-wise,
> > however
> > they require use of their own proprietary themostat. Apparently it
> > does
> > a data connection to the furnace, rather than the traditional wires a
> > "normal" thermostat would use. Apparently that method is more
> > efficient
> > (instead of 2/3 stages, it's fully variable speed, etc.).
> >
> > But there's no local API for the Daikin. There is a Cloud API, but
> > I'm
> > not sure about it's capabilities, or logevity, though it does appear
> > to
> > be available in Home Assistant.
> >
> > (There's also a Daikin thermostat compatability board that costs
> > extra,
> > would need to be installed in the furnace, and would probably
> > invaidate
> > some of my support -- and possibly limit some of the efficiency
> > gains.
> > It also appears to be a source of frustration online)
> >
> > The home assistant integration is somewhat important to me, partly
> > from
> > a data-logging POV, but also as none of these solutions implement
> > TOU-rate awareness on their own.
> >
> > So my questions:
> >
> > 1. Anybody heard of "Gree" or "Daikin"?
> >
> > 2. Anybody used Daikin's thermostat? Or their Home Assistant
> > integration?
> >
> > 3. Anybody know anything special I should know? The problem is I
> > didn't
> > do any research in advance of my furnace kicking the bucket, and I
> > can't
> > help but feel like I'm being rushed into a purchase. Which I am, but
> > I'd
> > like to make a decently educated purchase decision.
> >
> > And to be clear, I'm not sure I'll ever actually recoup any
> > signficant
> > savings from the heat pump. I've done a fair amount of calulation on
> > a
> > spreadsheet to project costs (which I'll share when I'm happy with
> > it),
> > but it's not directly applicable to the real world (unless we can
> > assume
> > a static temperature for a whole month). My main goal is to reduce
> > gas
> > usage where possible, but without going broke to do that.
> >
> >
>
>
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